Billy Corgan Discusses Podcast Launch, Music's Future, and the Upcoming AI "Shocker"

Would Billy Corgan lean more towards Tolstoy or Dostoevsky?

"Probably more Dostoyevsky, but as I get older, I’m becoming more of a Tolstoy fan," Corgan tells me.

The lead singer of The Smashing Pumpkins and I weren't drawn to Russian literature by chance; we were discussing art: what endures and what doesn't.

"The reason we continue to read Tolstoy remains valid, doesn’t it? While the worth of his work is intrinsic, the issue lies in how systems evolve," Corgan stated.

This discussion aligns well with an era when artificial intelligence is transforming whole sectors, particularly music. According to Corgan, this field is poised for a seismic transformation due to technological advancements ("Regardless of your views on music creation, pop culture icons—all these elements—are becoming obsolete. Within the next decade, everything will look entirely distinct.") However, it's worth noting that evolution isn't unprecedented; Corgan has been expanding his horizons outside of music for quite some time now. These changes do not detract from but rather enhance his musical pursuits.

In the past ten years, he has developed a varied portfolio of businesses: a tea store in Highland Park, Illinois, the National Wrestling Alliance (acquired in 2017), and recently, he initiated plans to create his own media platform. This year, Corgan debuted his new weekly talk show podcast titled "The Magnificent Others," produced in collaboration with Bill Maher's Club Random Studios. Among his guest speakers so far are notable figures such as Gene Simmons, Pat Benatar, and Tom Morello.

As you’ll see below, Corgan isn’t exactly fond of talking to journalists, so we’re letting his words speak for themselves.

"In public life at a particular tier, there exists a distinct kind of pressure that is incredibly unique," Corgan stated. WellnessInvestigator . "Then over time, through your own observation, you realize most people don’t understand what that pressure feels like… It’s like when you see people being interviewed about near-death experiences. There’s a certain credibility to ‘I died, and I saw the light.’ So, when you talk to somebody who has worldwide fame, just that alone grants them entry into a very unique club of which there are experiences, intensities, that most people would not understand, because they’ve never even come close to experiencing that sensation."

I inquired whether it was that frequently cited Dostoevsky quote: "The darker the night, the brighter the stars; the deeper the sorrow, the nearer to God."

"That sounds accurate to me," Corgan stated.

The interview has been modified for clarity and brevity.

Q: Why launch a podcast, of all things?

Honestly, I explored the space a little bit in the last few years, and got not much great feedback about it. Then, I was approached by Bill Maher’s producers after I was on an episode of his Club Random They asked, would you consider doing this? I replied, I have pondered it previously, but nothing ever came of it. Every proposal I received was so low-budget that I simply didn’t view it as a serious opportunity.

Over the past decade, as journalism has declined—especially within the realm of music—I've found myself having to become my own source of information. This shift pushed me towards adopting new ways of communicating. It eventually led me to also focus on sharing others' narratives.

I'm interested in understanding the concept of "being your own media." Could you share when you first became aware of this idea and describe how your perception of it has changed over time?

In the realm of music journalism, you typically find yourself in one of two categories: ascending or descending. Despite having concrete proof that you’re not declining, once people get fixated on a particular storyline about your career trajectory, it shapes public perception—forming a meta-narrative beyond your influence. The harder you try to refute this notion, the more it appears to validate their perspective, echoing the phrase from Shakespeare’s “Hamlet,” where he says, "the lady doth protest too much."

You’re in a situation where the organization you depended on back in the '90s to share your narrative—with at least some accuracy so you could promote both yourself and your music—is now part of an entirely new system. This shift has led everything towards clickbait dynamics. Despite being labeled as music journalism, these platforms adhere to the same principles found across all types of journalism today: without generating clicks, sustaining operations becomes impossible. Consequently, you face unusual expectations driven purely by this desire for clicks; essentially, it’s all about clickbait.

I excel at crafting clickbait, often producing it unintentionally. To connect with those curious about my musical journey respectfully and warmly—contrary to how mainstream media depicted me—I needed to find a new approach. Gradually, I honed skills that diverged from traditional business methods. This process resembles starting up a company; leveraging whatever resources you have, adapting them to your advantage, and expanding upon them to create narratives others would want to support.

If you're familiar with our business, my spouse and I run a tea shop called Madame Zuzu’s Emporium, where we organize musical events and retail vintage Smashing Pumpkin albums along with my music. Additionally, we’ve begun collaborating with various other musicians. This has allowed us to create an independent network rather than depending on mainstream media for promotion; instead, we utilize social platforms to share our narrative. As you might have observed, this approach spans widely—regardless of whether it's YouTube makers or influencers—individuals recognizing they don't conform to the standard system and discovering an alternative means of sharing their narrative.

Was there a specific instance when you realized you needed to take charge and build your own ecosystem?

Well, to be glib about it, you wake up one day and realize your value in media is being better dead than alive, and the fact that you're a living corpse means nothing to them. They'll flog you as long as they can. We see it even when people pass away—if there's a story to tell, they'll just keep telling it, truth be damned.

Of course, this also applies to the realm of YouTube nowadays, where content creators on X Rumble, and similar platforms. The moment of clarity came when I realized I had two options: accepting my digital demise or doing as I did back then—following the approach we used in the late ‘80s and early ‘90s by forging our own path to connect with others. You examine the resources at your disposal, experiment with them, and find out how to make progress. This mindset truly stems from the DIY spirit prevalent in punk rock and alternative music during that era.

So, why reach out to me at this moment?

Regarding the content, I am entirely open. Since I do not act out of fear, I see no reason to hide my guide from individuals such as yourself or engage in any deceptive behavior. Instead, I believe in being fully honest. Ultimately, honesty prevails.

Clearly, my expertise lies within the realm of entertainment. Should you find yourself in Los Angeles, this industry might make you believe that it’s the business which propels entertainers forward rather than vice versa. Within the sphere of professional wrestling, we’d refer to that as carney —a carnival garcon The idea that you don't require the artist. If they found a way to substitute the artist, they would. Indeed, they're eagerly anticipating replacing the artist with AI since businesses struggle to create sustainable models centered around artists. Artists tend to be inconsistent, utter foolish statements, perform erratic actions, and produce music that clashes with the predefined brand image.

I see no issue with being open and clear. It’s not like I assume you're familiar with my background, yet here’s what I've been up to for three decades. Being forthright is integral to how I operate professionally. When it comes to interacting with the press, courage isn’t something I lack. Even if an interview turned adversarial—which won’t be the case—I believe I understand how to handle such situations. These days, I'm quite selective regarding whom I engage in conversation with.

It's similar to posing the question, "Why become a digital creator when you can work within the broadcast network system?" The current state of the broadcast network model demonstrates that with declining viewership, networks might explore unconventional options such as late-night game shows. Additionally, we've witnessed WWE returning to NBC after several years away. This indicates a balance; it isn’t simply about choosing between traditional and new media formats. was The item, and now with digital television is The situation remains balanced between independent and mainstream media. Although it might seem like an unlikely partnership now, there is still a equilibrium present.

I suppose I operate at that equilibrium since that’s been my approach all along. I don’t consider your course to be heretical. It’s just that as a whole, your course—not inherently pointing fingers at you—has essentially embraced seppuku .

On the topic of fading industries, share your recollection of the initial moment when you became conscious of artificial intelligence.

To be honest, I can't recall specifically because I've been immersed in authors like Asimov since childhood. Also, works by Philip K. Dick—these concepts have cluttered my mind for so long that pinpointing any single influence is impossible.

When it comes to AI, I think we should distinguish between worries regarding AI in music versus concerns over utilizing AI for marketing purposes. Using AI for marketing doesn’t bother me at all, whereas employing AI for musical endeavors raises significant reservations for me.

Q: What’s the distinction?

In the realm of the music industry, you no longer have access to the same level of marketing funds as before. For us, this means being measured against our previous work which was backed by half-million-dollar video production budgets. However, artificial intelligence offers an accessible and budget-friendly way to create impressive marketing campaigns effortlessly.

From a musical standpoint, I find it sacrilegious. I openly acknowledge that it will be utilized extensively and that younger generations will likely misuse it. In the future, we could witness the emergence of AI-generated chart rankings alongside traditional analog ones. While I am not at the forefront of this movement, I recognize its presence and permanence. There is absolutely no question in my mind that within ten years, artificial intelligence will have dramatically altered the music industry landscape.

A: To clarify, what makes it considered heretical?

I believe music is a divine gift. Thinking you can become like God by utilizing AI is akin to tales from Greek myths.

I employ the expression "gaming the system." While I comprehend the natural urge behind such actions, music stands as one of the most enigmatic artistic expressions. Attempting to scientifically analyze what makes music effective can be incredibly challenging. Currently, individuals are manipulating the system much like skilled poker players at a gambling house. These manipulators may indeed emerge victorious for now and likely keep doing so, yet their success doesn't seem connected to the reasons folks actually enjoy listening to music.

In my view, this distinguishes pornography from a high-quality movie. One might contend that pornography yields greater financial gains and public interest, yet that does not necessarily imply it nourishes one's spirit or fulfills its presumed role effectively. This is precisely why I deem it heretical.

However, let me be clear about this—I’m the first to admit—that era has ended. Many individuals working behind the curtains have sought out my views, and each time, I convey the same message: it’s finished. Regardless of your perspective on music—its creation process, pop icons—all these elements—are now obsolete. Within ten years, everything will transform dramatically. This change will mirror the transition from silent films to talkies in 1929—a pivotal moment marked with shock—and recognized historically as both an endpoint for something old and a starting point for something new.

A: Essentially, the conclusion of an era.

That spans a considerable period. Up until possibly the late '90s, virtually all music was fundamentally analog. Despite being played from CDs, most recordings reflected an analog sound. The timeline stretches right back to early humans drumming on bones and singing. By epoch, we mean millennia rather than mere centuries. This marks a substantial shift in how individuals create and enjoy music.

What connects all these different ventures together? For instance, what led to opening a tea shop or getting involved with NWA?

I don’t consume coffee, but we offer some of the finest teas globally. The place was launched roughly ten years back in a more compact area, just when I crossed paths with my spouse. For a period, she managed it until we opted to shut down temporarily with plans to relaunch later. However, the pandemic struck, leading us to decide on opening our venture amid these challenging times—a rather bold move indeed. Yet, against all odds, things turned out incredibly well. Our current spot spans approximately 4,000 square feet and includes an event space where performances ranging from top-tier acts to appearances like David Arquette’s take center stage. Owning Bozo , theatre, poetry readings, comedy acts, and young artists also showcase their talents there. It’s a vegan, plant-based teahouse cafe.

For wrestling, I loved it as a kid, when I was a teen goth, and then fell back into it by chance in my late 20s. I got to know a lot of people in the business and fell in love with the behind-the-scenes aspect of it. Somehow, through a crazy series of events, I ended up owning the oldest wrestling company in the world.

The short version is, I was drawn into independent wrestling in Chicago, and got a reality show made with AMC. The whole thing blew up, but the reality show never aired. I said, "Okay, I'm done with wrestling. I'm done with all these people." Then, I got a call from TNA, which was at the time the second-biggest wrestling company in the world. I think it’s now owned by WWE as a subsidiary. I went to work there for three years, learned how to produce television behind the scenes, which was not a skill set I would have imagined. I fell out of that situation, said, "Okay, I'm never doing this again," and then I was offered the opportunity to own this august brand. And here we are, some seven years later.

To provide a straightforward explanation, the main idea is that by developing my own ecosystems or virtual worlds, I aim to showcase value where others insist there isn’t any. While this concept relies heavily on traditional methods, it is articulated through the lens of digital technology.

For the podcast, how does your role as an interviewer compare to being interviewed yourself?

An excellent query, and one without a simple response from my side just yet. When individuals such as Bill Maher and his collaborators reach out and ask, “Do you want to be part of this?” There’s that instant where you pause and consider, “Really me? Do they think I’m capable enough to take on this challenge?”

During the initial interview, I hadn’t actually tackled such an experience before. Sure, I’d handled small tasks here and there, but this involved sitting opposite a renowned rock icon like Gene Simmons for ninety whole minutes without making a fool of myself or coming across as overly enthusiastic. This wasn’t exactly within my comfort zone. It all happened rather unexpectedly, so everything you observe is essentially me figuring it out as I go along. Thankfully, the response thus far has been quite favorable, which motivates me greatly. However, predicting how this will shape up for me moving forward remains uncertain. Ideally, I believe we should aim for broader content, though I’m still unsure precisely what format that might take.

Q: Is there something nobody ever inquires about you that they secretly want to ask more frequently?

Often, I remark thatmusic doesn't come up much in my conversations. This ties into what I mentioned earlier. Once you turn into clickbait material, people aren't interested in hearing about "Share with us your favorite tune." Instead, they want "Another tale about someone who has passed away," or perhaps "More stories from the 1990s," or even better, "That anecdote you've shared numerous times since it garnered impressive engagement elsewhere."

If we were to put numbers to it, imagine compiling all 1,000 interviews I've conducted throughout my career. Out of those, approximately 10% covered topics related to music. The remaining 90% delved into sociological aspects, rumors, hints, suggestions, as well as pure fabrications and flights of fancy—that’s the landscape of the music industry. My observations pertain only to this sector; however, such trends persist within it despite being highly detrimental to its health.

Q: Is there one dream podcast guest you haven’t secured yet? Let’s put it out into the universe.

I'd really enjoy interviewing someone like Paul McCartney, since he’s faced intense scrutiny over many years with his life being thoroughly examined from every angle. The real test would be whether I could uncover a topic that genuinely interests him and brings something refreshingly new and distinct to his narrative—one that sheds light on his journey in such an enlightening manner that it enhances all related tales, making them even more fascinating. To me, this represents climbing the highest peak; although the potential for disappointment is significant should we fail, successfully achieving it would bring immense satisfaction.

As someone who follows these things closely, I often observe prominent figures adopting a familiar vernacular they've picked up over time, which generally suits their environment and helps them dodge sensationalist headlines. However, I have acquaintances who personally know individuals like Paul McCartney, and they share insights about his true persona behind the public image. This makes me wonder how engaging it might be to converse with the authentic version of such celebrities in an open setting. Of course, I realize that he may not allow such interactions, yet that’s precisely what piques my interest.

This tale was initially showcased on WellnessInvestigator

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